Previous Participatory design (PD) and HCI work have discussed the outcomes of research and design projects, their processes, technology innovations, methods, and users. Researchers have also examined the phases of collaborative research projects, including the ‘before’, ‘during’ and ‘after’ stages. There are however substantially more papers describing aspects of participation and collaboration in the during and after stages of a design research project compared with papers discussing collaborative activities before the formal project starts, during the pre-project activities where a project is negotiated, and its finances secured. This paper uses two municipal co-design research projects to explore participatory and collaborative processes as they unfolded before the actual projects started. By mainly considering the before-stage of these projects, this paper sheds light on a less studied aspect of many co-design projects, and research projects in general – how they came into being and the role of participation in designing the project-to-be.